Joico or Aphogee?

I've not used the joico hydrating treatment, but I'd say a deep conditioner is a good idea. I don't know if the joico one would be better, maybe.

It lasts longer. Definitely.

Obviously have no experience on long hair! I doubt it'd cause breakage as long as you keep the hair in fairly big chunks and avoid bending as much as possible. I'd say it doesn't go so crisp that it actually breaks anyway. It goes hard, but still slightly flexible.

Sorry, which one do you think lasts longer?

Joico. I guess I assumed it was obvious I was only talking about joico, sorry! I never really had good results with kpak. I ended up with brittle hair straight away the couple of times I tried.

I won't need protein for a long time now, even though I do wash at least once a week, but usually more when I'm swimming.

I was confused as the product blurb indicates that Aphogee should last longer than Joico Kpak

You know, I'm an idiot. I don't mean joico at all. I mean the aphogee. That's the one I was talking about from the start. Sorry to confuse!

So interesting that hair reacts different ways to protein.

I use Joico K-Pak, only after I've bleached. Leave it in for 5 mins or so, then rinse and condition with my normal conditioner. Doesn't dry it out at all. I tend to bleach every 8-10 weeks - if I go longer I sometimes do a protein treatment between, but no more than that.

My hair is long-ish - about an inch above bra-strap length. Fine, but quite a lot of it. Wavy-curly. Co-wash twice per week and usually rough dry on a medium heat.

Hope this helps!

I bought some ApHogee, whether or not i will actually use it remains to be seen. I will try on a strand first, see if it makes a difference. Protein doesn't usually do anything for my hair, neither do silicones, or Olaplex for that matter.
Maybe my hair is actually healthier than I think it is lol I just get sick of how tangled it gets, so tempted to chop a load off right now, urgh

I bought some ApHogee, whether or not i will actually use it remains to be seen. I will try on a strand first, see if it makes a difference. Protein doesn't usually do anything for my hair, neither do silicones, or Olaplex for that matter.
Maybe my hair is actually healthier than I think it is lol I just get sick of how tangled it gets, so tempted to chop a load off right now, urgh

Your hair is amazing. I would just look for products that specifically target detangling if that's the only issue you're having. There are some decent detangling sprays on the market.

Olaplex really saved my hair but it's waist length and i get tangles near the bottom. A dry oil helped me a TON...no more snags.

I missed your last post wicked pixie. There's a lot of curly hair products specifically for detangling, maybe one of those would help? There's a lot that don't have silicones.

I don't think protein will help with detangling though.

It isn't de-tangling that is the issue lol
It is the fact that it tangles in the first place ie velcro hair. It doesn't do that when the cuticle is flat and undamaged. So the fact that it wants to knot up (even after vinegar/cold water rinses, heavy conditioners and oils) indicates damage with my hair type.
I still haven't got around to using the Aphogee. I recently stripped out the colour, spot bleached all the old banding, did several Olaplex stand alone treatments, bleached my  roots, toned the whole lot and I am now totally sick of messing with my hair. I intended to fit the Aphogee in at some point, but I ran out of steam. Even washing my hair is a bit of a chore, I am far too lazy for high maintenance hair lol

trainedmermaid, I use Olaplex regularly, have done for a rear now, and use oils daily.

A dry oil helped me a TON...no more snags.

When a product is advertised as a dry oil it's mostly cyclomethicone FYI.

It is the fact that it tangles in the first place ie velcro hair.

Sorry, that's what I meant 🙂 Protein isn't going to do anything for that. A lot of the curly hair products help detangle, but as part of that, they help prevent too. My hair is too short still to have a major tangling problem though, so I can't say if it really helps.

It should help if the velcro effect is caused by raised/damaged  cuticle scales, which I suspect it is. It seems unlikely that i don't have any protein loss on hip length fully bleached hair. It has been bleached for at least four years now, that in itself takes a toll however well you look after it.

Ok, fair enough. I actually, stupidly, didn't realise protein can help with the cuticle. I thought it was more about the cortex, but seeing as I had such bad experiences with it in the past, I guess I stopped reading up about it!

Edited to add - I can say that I don't think it's helped with any roughness of the cuticle in particular when I've used it. It just made the hair feel stronger. I guess that's another reason I didn't think of it helping the cuticle.

I should also add, I totally over did it a few weeks ago. My hair was feeling great, other than some roughness on the ends. I decided to do one last kpak to use up the dregs of a bottle I'd had for a long time so I didn't have to pack it when I moved again. Yeah, bit mistake. When my hair was dry it started breaking off all over the place, but all at the same level, so obviously at a place where I'd overlapped bleach a bit too much a few months ago. I don't think this would have happened without the use of straighteners I ended up doing. I think the protein was just the last straw. I knew I had to be careful with it, but just pushed it that bit too much trying to be economic!  I'll definitely stick to just aphogee once every 6, or more, weeks in the future and nothing else with protein.