Cruela de Vil Realness :) Two Tone Black & White Goodness :) PLEASE HELP ME

Well, somehow I made it through and can see you've been doing your research! Unfortunately I think some of the advice you found is not great. Things I'd lump in the "bad idea" column: 40 volume developer, bleaching/ processing more than once a month, dyeing a permanent color over bleached hair, Manic Panic black dyes, Manic Panic Virgin Snow toners, shampoos with sulfates. Good ideas you alluded to are: using lower volume developers, spacing out your bleaching, bleaching/ processing over coconut oil, and mixing your own toner. If it were me and I was ready for a commitment, I'd only bleach half of my hair and put a demi-permanent black on the other half. If your blue is light enough it should bleach out. Yes, you technically could bleach it all and try a semi on one side but I think even with careful washing you will have some bleeding onto the white half and if you are OCD-ish it might bother you.

*cheers* Thank you for powering through this crazy long post Piscine! I'm really grateful for all your advice!

I posted this on another forum to garner as much advice as possible and a girl on there seemed concerned that my blue would mess things up and therefore advised to use bleach powder + shampoo to strip it...faded and not dyed since October '14 and you say it should be fine? Apparently it is supposed to 'drive it further in'? I'm hoping this is unnecessary as the less bleaching the better...

I'm now searching for a cruelty free demi-permanent dye in both black and brown as I feel that my hair won't be going white all in one go and your comments have given me the push I needed to listen to my gut and take a months break after bleaching but I'm still worried that the black won't take so evenly on my currently two tone bleached/natural hair (I don't want to end up with the crazy line!). Do you know of any ranges that you could recommend for cruelty-free demi-permanents? And also what would you use as a replacement for the Manic Panic white toner?

Also, searching for sulfate-free, cruelty-free shampoo (and conditioner? Is it necessary for all haircare products to be sulfate-free in your opinion?) that will also take care of my blonde/white...I've heard good stuff about Yes To Carrots, could you recommend this brand at all or that I could add the purple dye to it to make my own purple shampoo/conditioner?

Thank you so much for your help. I really appreciate it. If anyone else has comments on my original post or these replies, I would be so grateful and look forward to receiving your messages. Apologies again for such an epic saga of an original post!

Love, light and peace,
H x

Making notes as I read ...

*You can use a permanent black to avoid it running in to the bleach.  Just wash the black side out first when you do it and when you do root touch ups.  Keep in mind that the black half of your head will have to stay deeper colours until it grows out, because permanent black doesn't lift back out very well.

*Not using conditioner to make it stay longer is a farce.  Conditioner will always help a colour to last because it pushes the cuticles of the hair down, keeping colour underneath.  Shampoo, particularly SLS shampoo, strips colour.  Not conditioner.

*I don't know of a cruelty free permanent dye off of the top of my head.  I'll get back to you on that one.

*No need to dye the blue bits on the black side.  Black will cover it.  It may wash out after the first month over the bleached bits, but after a second application this should no longer be a problem (from personal experience of putting a black permanent over bleached hair).

*Never use 40 vol, ever.  How light does your hair go with a standard bleach?  If you can get it to inside-of-a-banana-peel yellow, you can tone it.

*Virgin Snow only works on the palest of pale blondes.  You may need a stronger toner.  I remember several months ago, one of our members (Alexia) tested toner after toner after toner.  I am not sure where the thread is now, but the end all is not all toners are created equal, and Virgin Snow is pretty weak in the toning world.

*Never bleach twice in one day, ever.  Never.  Don't do it.  Just don't.  Leave a minimum of one month in between bleachings.

*Blue bits may or may not come out with the bleach.  Blue is a tricky colour.

*Coconut oil is great.  Use it regularly, and make sure you put bleach over the top of it.  Long story short, the lauric acid in coconut oil bonds to the protein strands in your hair, making it less susceptible to bleach damage.  This does not mean your hair won't get damaged, just that there is less chance of it being fried, more chance of it retaining strength.

*I'm pretty sure Lush shampoos have SLS.  I wouldn't use them, personally, but off the top of my head I'm not sure of cruelty-free SLS-free shampoos.

*Purple shampoos and conditioners are basically toning shampoos and conditioners.  The purple is neutralising the brassy yellow tones (expect some yellow tones when bleaching your hair.  DO NOT bleach directly to white.  Bad idea, your hair will fall apart).  It is much more cost-effective to make your own.  How much dye to conditioner depends on the level of brass in your hair.  Invert a picture of the hair in a photo editing programme and you will have the colour you need.  A blue based purple is what is needed for making your own toner.

Other notes:

*Only apply the bleach to your roots.  Do not bleach your already bleached lengths.  They might need to go a shade or two lighter (hard to tell in those photos), but that can easily be done with a bleach bath or two for more controlled bleaching.

I posted this on another forum to garner as much advice as possible and a girl on there seemed concerned that my blue would mess things up and therefore advised to use bleach powder + shampoo to strip it...faded and not dyed since October '14 and you say it should be fine? Apparently it is supposed to 'drive it further in'? I'm hoping this is unnecessary as the less bleaching the better...

I think that would only apply to a more recent dye job where the color is still vibrant. If there is still staining after you finish all your bleaching then I would worry about trying to remove it.

I'm now searching for a cruelty free demi-permanent dye in both black and brown as I feel that my hair won't be going white all in one go and your comments have given me the push I needed to listen to my gut and take a months break after bleaching but I'm still worried that the black won't take so evenly on my currently two tone bleached/natural hair (I don't want to end up with the crazy line!). Do you know of any ranges that you could recommend for cruelty-free demi-permanents?

Sorry, I'm not familiar with any cruelty-free demi-permanent dyes. Also I don't think you need both black and brown dye. Use deposit-only color (10 volume) on the already processed part and 20 volume on the virgin regrowth. You can use a red protein filler on the light (already processed) part to make a more natural black. If you never, ever, and I mean never want to remove the black you could try henna + indigo. Lush makes Caca Noir, which is vegan.

And also what would you use as a replacement for the Manic Panic white toner?

Also, searching for sulfate-free, cruelty-free shampoo (and conditioner? Is it necessary for all haircare products to be sulfate-free in your opinion?) that will also take care of my blonde/white...I've heard good stuff about Yes To Carrots, could you recommend this brand at all or that I could add the purple dye to it to make my own purple shampoo/conditioner?

If you want to stick with Manic Panic, you can make a toner with Ultra Violet heavily diluted in conditioner. Sparks also makes cruelty-free dye so you could try using their Purple Passion in the same way. You can also just add some dye to your shampoo and/ or conditioner. I don't like the commercial purple toning shampoos as they often have sulfates and can make processed hair feel dry. Sulfates are in shampoos, not other hair products. They are what give shampoo its foamy quality. It's also what will strip color (and everything else) from your hair so it's a good idea to avoid them. Again, I can't recommend any cruelty-free ones specifically, you'll just have to do research or check the labels.

Hi everybody,

So kind of you both to post such detailed responses! I really appreciate all of the advice and the effort you took to read my epic post...here goes another :s

I have taken into account most of what people have said here and on another forum and done some more research.

I've been thinking about the permanent dye for the black and although I know it would eventually make washing easier (I've resigned myself to the fact that this will be a little more complicated than usual), I think I might go for the demi or semi's as I feel like once I've made all this effort I may want to switch the colour from black at some point? Quite like the idea of a black/green or black/purple?

So bearing that in mind...someone mentioned a bleach bath...should I bleach bath both sides of the regrowth once or twice and THEN section it down the middle? Apparently the run from this could help eradicate the blue? Does this sound right? Would it be sensible to give it a week or so before I then bleached the light side? OR should I just put a semi brown/red on the dark side and hope that it covers the blue and that the demi going on top won't have a dreaded line in it when it fades?

I think then after I'd bleach bathed and got to the sections part of the process I would put a red semi on the dark side and then a brown over this so that it didn't look too harsh against the light side which obvs won't be light enough to be white until I've waited to bleach again. Then when it can be white, I'll put the black demi/semi in...this will also give me more of a chance of seeing how the dark will fade with this mish mash of dark regrowth and light ends that I have going on currently...

As for toning in between bleaching, I feel like it's gonna get dirty ginge so I'm probably just gonna tone in between bleaching for vanities sake...would it be better to do this with the shampoo/conditioner so it doesn't get overprocessed?

I have now realised Lush's sulfate using ways (I knew there was a reason I'd stopped liking them but couldn't remember why haha) so am looking at...
Lovea Pomegranate Shampoo
A'kin Macadamia and Wheat Protein Conditioner
Madara Colour and Shine Conditioner
...I am checking with mypure as to what colour these are as I think they have to be white to be able to be mixed with a bit of purple dye to create a toning formula...

In terms of dying products, I'm terribly confused. I think I've made my mind up against using Manic Panic as although I've heard lots of good stuff, I've also heard a few horror stories and I think I might just try and see how their products react with my hair later once it's all done and been in for a while?

I've heard good stuff about Special Effects, Directions and Sparks but in terms of a demi-perm for the dark side I've seen that Paul Mitchell do a Translucent Colour range and I think they are supposed to be Cruelty Free? Does anyone have any suggestions on that either for the light or dark sides? For the light side, I need to work out which purple to get to make my toner...Thanks for the suggestions on that @Piscine 🙂

Also, I'm obvs going to be messing around with bleach for a little while so I feel it probably makes more sense to get some bigger bottles rather than just kits so can anyone suggest some favourites that are cruelty free? Think I'm gonna get a 30, 20 and a 10 vol developer, just so I can mess around at whim with little touch ups and blah blah THEN I just need bleach powder right?  *stars*

In summary, does it sound like I have the actual techniques and process sorted now or am I still talking nonsense?
Bleach bath first or just brown/red on the ends of the dark side?
Does anyone know about the shampoo and conditioners that I mentioned?
Please, suggest any favourite bleach products that I can buy in larger amounts + decent demi or semi blacks and semi violet/purples?

Sorry for another long post...forewarned is forearmed and all that haha! Thank you in advance for any help I can get on these questions.

@Intempestivity - thank you for my notes 🙂 I like how you work!

I'm getting so utterly excited about this idea! My new coconut oil is arriving today and I can't wait! I'm gonna be sleeping with one greasy ass head tonight!!  *1*

Happy hair dying everybody 😀

H x

I've been thinking about the permanent dye for the black and although I know it would eventually make washing easier (I've resigned myself to the fact that this will be a little more complicated than usual), I think I might go for the demi or semi's as I feel like once I've made all this effort I may want to switch the colour from black at some point? Quite like the idea of a black/green or black/purple?

I don't think you are clear on the difference between products. True semi-permanents like Manic Panic are deposit only. They do not require developer and do not affect the hair's structure. Most of them will wash out completely with time. Any other product that requires a developer is not a true semi but is really a demi-permanent or a permanent color. These deposit color inside the hair and affect natural hair pigmentation and structure.
I don't understand what you are saying about black/green and black/purple. Do you mean an allover dark green or dark purple? Those are still achievable if you choose a demi-permanent or permanent color; you would just have to use a color remover and then you could dye over it.

So bearing that in mind...someone mentioned a bleach bath...should I bleach bath both sides of the regrowth once or twice and THEN section it down the middle? Apparently the run from this could help eradicate the blue? Does this sound right? Would it be sensible to give it a week or so before I then bleached the light side? OR should I just put a semi brown/red on the dark side and hope that it covers the blue and that the demi going on top won't have a dreaded line in it when it fades?

I think then after I'd bleach bathed and got to the sections part of the process I would put a red semi on the dark side and then a brown over this so that it didn't look too harsh against the light side which obvs won't be light enough to be white until I've waited to bleach again. Then when it can be white, I'll put the black demi/semi in...this will also give me more of a chance of seeing how the dark will fade with this mish mash of dark regrowth and light ends that I have going on currently...

As for toning in between bleaching, I feel like it's gonna get dirty ginge so I'm probably just gonna tone in between bleaching for vanities sake...would it be better to do this with the shampoo/conditioner so it doesn't get overprocessed?

My advice remains the same; you are welcome to re-read it and accept or reject it. I think you are just going to have to live with the in-between stage for a month or so. I personally wouldn't put a brown on the going-to-be-white section; it's just going to make it harder to get it white. You can tone it with heavily diluted semi-permanent dye while it's in the in-between stage: blue to tone orange hair, violet to tone yellow hair.