Adverse Haircolour Results

Im not familiar with his toners, so i dont know what warm honey is supossed to look like. If your base from the ash had blue in it, or a more blue based violet, and this warm honey had yellow/gold in it, that explains why you turned green. Thats why i steer clear of any hair color that isnt classified by its base color, like 9G or 8WN or 4RV, and i like to make my own toners using pure pigment diluted with shampoo or conditioner. With box dyes and so many drug store brands, you really just dont know what colors were used to make "champagne" or "ash blonde". Those descriptions are so vague + im so anal about stuff like that, i have to know exactly what base(s) a color has.

To tone out green, ive heard of peopke having success using ketchup. Or get a red semi and just add a teeny tiny bit to conditioner. If its more of a blue green, go for a red orange.

Thank you Katie, I'm learning the hard way! There wasn't much that could go wrong with the browns and blacks I used to use. This blonde quest is kicking me in the backside, ha ha.

I'll have to start getting to grips with base colour and hopefully get more predictable results. When there is something I want to try,  I'm usually impatient and just buy colouring products from the drugstore, but perhaps there are really no box dyes that will give the right effect on lighter coloured hair.

Next time I do any colour,  I'll try to be more patient and get myself to Sally's to get the right base shade. But you have restored my faith in haircolour and learning better to control the outcome... I was beginning to think I could use no colour anymore, but maybe I just need to lay off the local drugstore products!

Thats what i do. Of course, some drugstore products can be exactly what someone needs + its great, but i just think the results are so unpredictable sometimes. Pretty much all of my corrective color clients ive ever had have needed corrective color because of a box dye. Plus box dyes usually have higher vol developers than is necessary, it could have 40 vol and you wouldnt know it, which to me is wrong, and scary. A lpt of women get hot roots with box dyes when trying to go darler, because they usually have 20 in them when 10 vol would be more than enough. plus, here in the states anyway, a typical box dye (loreal,clairol, feria, garnier) usually costs much more ($12-$16 ) than going to sallys, and sallys is better quality + its cheaper. Most women think "oh i dont want to spend more and buy the dye and developer seperately", when thats not true at all. Its usually between $5-$8.with box dyes its not customized at all. No taking into account your base color, and esp with blondes you pretty much have to hope the base is what you think it is, because therres no way to know! Many hairstylists LOVE box dyes because it brings them more clients with screwed up hair that they can charge an arm + a leg for because its then called "corrective color". I hate box dyes. I hate when i get a client + her hair is screwed up because of a box dye, it pisses me off. These companies know very well that most women dont know about bases and tones + levels, yet they promise beautiful results + lie + usually cause way more damage than would ever be necessary. And women have no idea, usually! They see a beautiful, rich deep vibrant red, and they end up with bright red orange roots, and the rest of the hair is a dull reddy brown. Because that box prob had 20 in it, which gave them hot roots and made their lengths look faded. When, if a box had 10 instead, it would have been ok. Maybe not that exact color most likely because everyones base is different.

Sorry im kinda ranting. Idk how box dyes are in the UK, but here in the states ive maybe seen 2 box dyes that new clients had previously used + it actually looked nice. I just think box dye companies promise false hope + its false advertising.  All they care about is money, not the integrity or individual persons hair.

I really enjoyed the rant! It's good to know there are people in the hair industry that do know their trade,  are honest and knowledgeable, and are not just out to keep clients bringing in money.

I used to be hair-obsessed years ago,  just learning on my own, so the term "base" is very familiar. I suppose I just been trusting the box dyes in that, if it said "ash", I thought it would contain an anti-orange ingredient and give the right effect. Perhaps for some box dyes, it's true, but I soon forgot any knowledge I learnt and started to never question what was in them. Just bought them out of convenience!

So now, sorry to the haircolour suppliers I've been pouring my money to...  I won't be wasting my money! It is so worth it to research the right product and take a trip to Sally's.

I don't drive in the UK yet, but I did in the USA, so getting to proper beauty supply stores was much easier. Plus, aren't there other hair care suppliers in the USA other than Sally's? It seemed so much easier to get the right products there. I think it's only Sally's here...anyone in the UK know of any other proper suppliers of hair colour?

When you mentioned the price of box dyes in the USA, my jaw nearly dropped to the floor. But when I think about it,  that's about what they're charging here now too!

I wouldn't put the blame fully on the shoulders of box dyes though. A big part of it is people not knowing what they're doing and not a bothering to read up about it first. In the days before the internet there was an excuse. Now there isn't really.

Yes, box dyes to imply in a sense that, boom, slap it on and you'll get this colour. But if people really read the instructions, an awful lot of the warnings are there. I don't think I've ever seen anything about adding red if you're going brown from blonde and other things like that, but if they did the instructions would be pretty long. But there are a lot of other warnings. Most people just don't read through them all.

Katie, you'll see the worst, and often because so many people dye their hair, and it'll seem like all box dyes are evil. But I've known a lot more people never have a problem with dyes than the ones that do.

One thing about Sally's. There aren't many in the UK really. But the staff are often not as knowledgable as they should be (and the same is true of the US stores too) so that's really not a fix all for home dying with people who don't know what they're doing.

I did do a little search on the Warm Honey toner for info and reviews, and I couldn't find much on that particular shade. False advertising though if the box shows a before and after picture of hair that turns a nice bright golden shade, makes you believe it will do something similar.

I hope to get my hair a nice,  even blonde, and after that, learn which toners and products to improve and maintain the condition and tone. Well, knowing me, I'm sure I'll be itchy to try something new at some point! I see myself wanting to try out golds as well as silvers and perhaps even continue to do my own BBs to keep lightening. And I think I'm equipped with all the right information from this forum!

No,  I still can't decide if I'm warm or cool, with red-pink skin tone and green-gold flecked eyes,  been analysing that for years,  ha ha.

I just think that at least here in the states, there sooo many commercials +advertisements everywhere for box dyes, they imply your hair is going to look fabulous + that its "gentle".  If you know what youre doing + a box dye in whichever shade is what you need, go for it. But, most women dont know what theyre doing + dont know that that box dye they just picked out has too high developer in it than necessary, and they create unnecessary damage, and get hot roots. Most women trust the little shade/result indicators on the side of the box. I just think box dye companies advertise so heavily here that everyones hair is going to look incredible, that theyre totally safe, gentle + what not...it just really bothers me. Idk, idk how to put it into words, i just see so many women with hair that looks like crap from a box dye that advertises their hair is going to look + feel wonderful, it just bugs me to see the dissappointment + then having to come to me and spend money they dont have (thats why they bought a box to begin with) to fix it. I try to educate my clients as best i can about colors, developers + different dyes. Ive had a good amount of women come in as a new client, who are low income + need their hair fixed because of a box dye. I know these women cant afford to come in every 6-8 weeks and will end up wanting to color their hair at home because its cheaper. So i write down what they should buy from sallys, and what to do with it. Ive got in trouble before at work for it but i dont care. Im not giving a single mother working 2 jobs to make ends meet an ultimatum of come here to get your hair done + pay $75-$150 or risk screwing up your hair at home. As long as i can help them, im happy. Sure, more $ is great, but id rather help them out + educate them, then they end up telling their friends about me + then they come in. Even if she doesnt come back in for color, shel still come back in for cuts, and her dye looks great 🙂

Box dyes just gear their products to "average" hair. Level 5, medium density, still pretty healthy. Its not customized ro the individual at all, yet they act like it is.

And most sallys girls here suck. I asked this girl there a couple weeks ago where the color removers were + she didnt even know what i was talking about. When i was in 7th grade i went there, trying to dye my feria light gold dyed hair back to my natural light ash blonde. This woman told me to buy a 7C (copper!) And use 30 vol. I had no clue at the time + trusted if she works with hair dye all day she must be very knowledgeable....HA, yeah right! I had bright orangey peachy hair. It was awful lol.

As long as i can help them, im happy. Sure, more $ is great, but id rather help them out + educate them, then they end up telling their friends about me + then they come in. Even if she doesnt come back in for color, shel still come back in for cuts, and her dye looks great ...

Not only have you helped educate a client, but even if you've taught her how to maintain her own colour, she will always trust your advice and, as you say, come back for other treatments as well as recommend your service.  Chances are, if she's coming in for a colour correction that she may not be able to afford, she probably wouldn't normally come back again - it would have been a one-off.  But once you gain that trust, she will WANT to return for something, even if just a cut.

Good to hear as well about Sally's personnel.  I went over once to pick up a toner, and I was recommended one which I bought, but the girl's knowledge didn't seem to impress me much!

I thought of combining posts, but how can anyone see a new post that way if it relates to this topic?

I have become aware of 'bases' since this episode, and I'm decluttering a bit tonight and throwing away my bottle of Warm Honey Colour Restore.  But before I bin the box, I thought I'd get your opinions about the colour ingredients and see if they're any indicator of the tarnished green result I experienced.

I see: Basic Blue 99, Basic Red 51, and Basic Yellow 87.

Are the numbers following the colour names more or less a percentage (or proportion) of the amount of colourant in the product?  If so, then this product really isn't warm at all, except for a high amount of yellow.  There's loads of blue, and hardly any red.  If the number is indeed the indicator in this instance, then a very, very low amount of blue should have been used to make a warm honey toning product.

Moderator combined posts.

I thought of combining posts, but how can anyone see a new post that way if it relates to this topic?

People who have not viewed the topic since you modified your post will see the "new" graphic next to the post if you modify the post, but it will not bring it to the top.

I have become aware of 'bases' since this episode, and I'm decluttering a bit tonight and throwing away my bottle of Warm Honey Colour Restore.  But before I bin the box, I thought I'd get your opinions about the colour ingredients and see if they're any indicator of the tarnished green result I experienced.

I see: Basic Blue 99, Basic Red 51, and Basic Yellow 87.

Are the numbers following the colour names more or less a percentage (or proportion) of the amount of colourant in the product?  If so, then this product really isn't warm at all, except for a high amount of yellow.  There's loads of blue, and hardly any red.  If the number is indeed the indicator in this instance, then a very, very low amount of blue should have been used to make a warm honey toning product.

No, those are not percentages.  Those are actual dye names.  Certain dyes have different numbers in their actual INCI Nomenclature name.  You'll see the same in foods (like FC&C Red 5, etc).  If they are labeled properly (as required by regs), then the ingredients should be listed according to the amount that is greatest to the least; in this case it would have the most blue, then red, and finally yellow.

heres the companies that manufacture those specific ones:

basic blue 99
http://www.vanshichemicals.co.in/basic-blue-99-374752.html

basic red 51
http://www.vanshichemicals.co.in/basic-red-51-374749.html

basic yellow 57
http://www.vanshichemicals.co.in/basic-yellow-57-374751.html

it really doesnt help much, it shows the molecular structure of them and things like that....it doesnt show colors but maybe theres a way to see what the colors look like somehow, idk a lot of that stuff is over my head, ive never taken a chemistry class. still kinda cool to see where the colors are actally coming from

Ah, okay, thanks Cupcake, I understand.

Thanks, Katie... oooh, molecular structures, something else to start to study up on. 😀

I thought it was some miracle product and after washing it out, my hair would be a gorgeous warm tone... before I slapped it on my hair, I should have seen it didn't look too warm to me.  Here's how it looked!

Now it's going back in the bin... 🙂

thats weird. im just thinking out loud here, but from the colors in the ingredients, theres the blue, red, and yellow.
blue+ yellow = green
green + red = brownish

or, blue + red = purple
purple + yellow = brownish

or, red + yellow = orange
orange + blue = brownish

i mean, i dont know the actual ratios of the colors, like, there could be:

mostly yellow + a little red = a yellow-orange color
yellow orange + a little bit of blue = a cooler looking, darker yellow/gold, which is what that looks like to me

idk i could be totally off im just guessing. any which way just doesnt seem like a promising tone to me, in my opinion. it actually looks like a slightly greeny gold to me. it definitely is not my personal image of a restoring infusion of warm pigment. i mean, i guess it does kind of look like the actual color of honey a bit, it just seems a lot cooler to me than the real color of honey, and too cool to promise "replenishes depleted warm tones in coloured treated hair" and "warm pigment hair infusion". if it were put on say, white hair, id be afraid it would look like a murky, dirty gold.

That's right!  I enjoy your thinking out loud.

I do wonder about the proportions, but regardless, all primary colours combined give you some sort of a brown.  Although going back to Cupcake's thoughts above, if there is supposedly mostly blue, then red, and the least amount of yellow, perhaps the yellow is a type that is extremely vivid and can overpower the 'purple', or the 'purple' is too weak to stand up to any yellow and reacts oddly.

To me, it looks like a very neutralised, muddy green.  And yes, imagine if you put onto white hair, it certainly wouldn't look like you've restored any warm tones!

Sort of reminds me of tarnished gold jewellery... maybe that's the look some people want to go for. 😀

haa, that exactly what i was thinking! it looks like this bracelet i won that has tiny gold beads on it, i think its called a wish bracelet or something...but yeah its tarnished and i thought the color looked exactly like it lol